1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
433
434
435
436
437
438
439
440
441
442
443
444
445
446
447
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
455
456
457
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
470
471
472
473
474
475
476
477
478
479
480
481
482
483
484
485
486
487
488
489
490
491
492
493
494
495
496
497
498
499
500
501
502
503
504
505
506
507
508
509
510
511
512
513
514
515
516
517
518
519
520
521
522
523
524
525
526
527
528
529
530
531
532
533
534
535
536
537
538
539
540
541
542
543
544
545
546
547
548
549
550
551
552
553
554
555
556
557
558
559
560
561
562
563
564
565
566
567
568
569
570
571
572
573
574
575
576
577
578
579
580
581
582
583
584
585
586
587
588
589
590
591
592
593
594
595
596
597
598
599
600
601
602
603
604
605
606
607
608
609
610
611
612
613
614
615
616
617
618
619
620
621
622
623
624
625
626
627
628
629
630
631
632
633
634
635
636
637
638
639
640
641
642
643
644
645
646
647
648
649
650
651
652
653
654
655
|
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<title> Dillo Web Browser ::
Interview
</title>
<style type="text/css">
body {margin: 0}
.sidebar .items {background: #f8f8f8}
.sidebar h3 {font-size: 1em; margin: 0.4em 0 0.2em 0}
h1 {color: #67f; margin-top: 0.25em; margin-bottom: 0.25em}
h3 {color: #56f; background: #f0f0f0}
.section {background: #f8f8f8; border-color: #e8e8e8; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; margin-bottom: 0.5em}
.section h3 {margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0.2em}
ul li {list-style-type: square}
</style>
</head>
<body text="black" link="blue" vlink="#403090" bgcolor="white"
style="line-height: 1.3">
<table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr>
<td><img src="db1.png" alt="The Dillo Web Browser">
<td width="100%">
<img src="db2.png" alt="The Dillo Web Browser" height="124" width="100%">
</table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="15" cellspacing="5" width="100%">
<tr valign="top">
<td class="sidebar">
<h3>Dillo</h3>
<div class="items">
<a href="index.html">Home</a><br>
<a href="screenshots/index.html">Screenshots</a><br>
<a href="download.html">Download</a><br>
<a href="FAQ.html" title="Frequently asked questions">FAQ</a><br>
<a href="Compatibility.html">Compatibility</a><br>
<a href="http://hg.dillo.org/dillo/raw-file/default/ChangeLog">
Changelog</a><br>
<a href="Plans.html">Current Plans</a><br>
<a href="MList.html">Mailing List</a><br>
<a href="conferences.html">Conferences</a><br>
<a href="donations.html">Donate</a><br>
</div>
<h3>Users</h3>
<div class="items">
<a href="dillo3-help.html">Help</a><br>
<a href="Icons/index.html">Icons</a><br>
<a href="help/bug_meter.html">Bug meter</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<h3>Bug Tracker</h3>
<div class="items">
<small>[currently broken]</small><br>
<!--
<a href="/bugtrack/Dbugtrack.html">Bug Track Intro</a><br>
<a href="/bugtrack/Dquery.html">View Entries</a><br>
<a href="/bugtrack/Dinsert.html">Bug Insertion</a><br>
<a href="/bugtrack/Dvolunteer.html">Volunteering</a><br>
-->
</div>
<h3>Developers</h3>
<div class="items">
<a href="developer.html">New Developer</a><br>
<a href="documentation.html">Documentation</a> *<br>
<a href="NC_design.html">Naming&Coding</a><br>
<a href="source.html">Source repository</a><br>
<a href="dpi1.html">Dpi1 Spec</a><br>
<a href="CSS.html">CSS Spec</a><br>
<a href="D_authors.html">Authors</a><br>
<a href="authors/jcid-email.html">Security contact</a><br>
</div>
<h3>Related</h3>
<div class="items">
<a href="press.html">Dillo in the Press!</a><br>
<a href="interview.html">Interview</a><br>
<a href="interview.es.html">Entrevista</a>
<img src="chile.png" alt="*"><br>
<a href="Links.html">Links</a><br>
<a href="logos/logos.html">Art</a><br>
</div>
<p>
<a href="authors/webmaster-email.html">Webmaster</a>
<p>
<a href="http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/">
<img src="abblue.gif" width="80" height="15"
alt="anybrowser"></a>
<td valign="top" align="left" width="100%">
<div lang=en>
<table border='1' cellpadding='5'>
<tr><td>
This is a revised translation of an interview I gave to tux.cl in Q4 2002.
Many thanks to Stephen Lewis and Kelson Vibber for correcting my grammar.
If any glitches remain, corrections are welcome.
<p>It's interesting that even today (2009) it keeps its relevance
on the different topics it covers. Both, about Dillo and FreeSW/OSS.
<p><small>(Original source in Spanish
<a href='interview.es.html'>here</a>)</small>
--Jorge
</td></tr>
</table>
<br><br><h2>Basically, what's the Dillo project about?</h2>
<p>
The project objectives are:
<ul>
<li> The democratization of Internet information access.
<li> Security and personal privacy.
<li> High software efficiency.
</ul>
<p>
and for that we're developing a web browser that is:
<ul>
<li> Completely written in C.
<li> Less than 300KB (Yes, KILOBYTES!).
<li> Free Software under the GPL license.
<li> Working on a
<a href='Compatibility.html'>broad range</a>
of hardware platforms
<li> Very fast.
</ul>
<p>
In fact, with Dillo, a 486 PC and a telephone line is enough
to enjoy a good Internet connection.
<p>
Dillo's efficiency allows it to work even on a personal digital
assistant (pocket sized computer).
<p>
In summary: we're developing a web browser that allows the user
fast, secure and efficient access to the wide information
spectrum of the Internet, keeping the hardware requirements to a
minimum.
<br><br><h2>What would be the main use for Dillo?</h2>
<p>
Information access!
<p>
Dillo could open the doors of a new Internet experience to tens
of millions of people in the world.
<p>
It is important to know that the entry barriers to Internet are
_artificial_. They were created and sustained with a view to make
better business profits.
<p>
(If you purchase a computer of the current year, renew it every
two or three, and in addition pay monthly for broadband service,
it is much more expensive than keeping your computer and paying
the phone bill)
<p>
Now you know: you don't need a modern computer and broadband
for Internet access.
<br><br><h2>It is mentioned that Dillo could be used even on a 486. Is there
an "ideal" distribution for this kind of equipment?</h2>
<p>
There is a large number of so-called minimalist distributions
seeking to accomodate different degrees of "smallness". They
range in size from a single diskette to a few tens of Megabytes.
<p>
I haven't tested them yet! - but I installed Slackware (3.5
IIRC) on a 66Mhz 486DX once and it worked flawlessly.
<p>
Now, considering that
<a href='http://distrowatch.gds.tuwien.ac.at/drinou'>Drinou Linux</a>
is based on Slackware, and includes a packaged
dillo-0.6.6, I'd recommend it, and this is the one I'd give a try to
power a 486 machine.
<br><br><h2>Is an estimate of the size of Dillo's userbase known?</h2>
<p>
That's very hard to estimate, since dillo is not distributed from
our site alone: there are Debian packages, rpm, ipk, *BSD, etc.
scattered through cyberspace. There are also distributions
including it in their base systems.
<p>
If the source package alone is considered (an option far less
used than an .rpm), dillo-0.6.6 must have near 20,000 downloads
from our site.
<p>
We'd have to add a larger amount to that number.
<p>
Eventually I'll come up with a way to count them all!
<br><br><h2>How has the acceptance of Dillo been in the GNU/Linux community?</h2>
<p>
Very very good!
<p>
I've noticed that from the people who take some time to write and
thank us for the benefit they get from using Dillo, we've got
more fans than users.
<p>
It is extraordinarily enriching to receive the thankful letters
from so many people from such diverse parts of the world.
<br><br><h2>How is the development of Dillo done?</h2>
<p>
Dillo is an international project with developers of diverse
nationalities collaborating from their respective countries. All
of this is made possible by integrating several technologies that
allow the configuration of what we may call a "virtual office"
over the Internet space.
<p>
The group consists of two core developers, three steady
developers and several freelance ones.
<p>
The geographic distribution of its members is mainly in Europe
and South America!
<p>
Among the main technologies we use to create our working space we
have: HTTP servers, CGI, log analyzer, bug tracker, web browsers,
shell servers, mailing lists, ssh, CVS, FTP, IRC, scripts,
python, gcc/gdb, POSIX-compliant operating systems, debuggers,
release publishers, ..., and the English language!
<br><br><h2>Why GTK+ and not QT?</h2>
<p>
For several reasons. The main one is that when the Dillo project
started, the QT libraries were not Free Software (that changed
later). Moreover, by that time, they were developing the KHTML
library for their future web browser (Konqueror).
<p>
On the other hand, gzilla was based on GTK+, and it was Free
Software, and the image rendering extensions I was planning were
assured because GTK+ was the basis for the GIMP!
<br><br><h2>The fact that Dillo is programmed in C makes it portable to other
operating systems. Shouldn't Windows be your principal target,
considering that the "democratization of Internet" would have
more impact because of the larger userbase of this OS?</h2>
<p>
Definitely NOT.
<p>
Let's go by parts: the fact that Dillo is programmed in C is not
a guarantee of portability. In fact, library dependence is much
more important.
<p>
If the libraries are portable, or have equivalent APIs, is
relatively straightforward to make a version for the supporting
platform. If the function libraries do not exist in the target
platform, porting becomes a titanic task.
<p>
On to the other part, the endeavour of democratizing the access
to Internet is very much tied to these two facts:
<ul>
<li> Dillo keeps the hardware requirements low and constant.
<li> You don't need to pay software licenses to use Free Software.
</ul>
<p>
Micro$oft (windoze) is the exact opposite, and even more, it
artificially raises the hardware requirements. If someone uses
that platform, he will have to renew his computer periodically
(to do the same things he was doing before), and also pay a new
license every time there's an "upgrade".
<p>
If, on the other hand, a Free Software platform such as GNU/Linux
(with dillo) is opted for, an old or new computer can be used for
as long as the hardware lasts, without fearing that it will
stop working. And, of course, there is no need to pay a license
fee.
<p>
The second option allows people who are without an Internet
connection because of its "high costs" to enjoy the advantages of
the information era.
<p>
It is true that there's a need to educate and inform that:
<ul>
<li> It is FALSE that you need to renew your computer every three
years.
<li> It is FALSE that you need an ultra modern computer to connect
to the Internet.
<li> It is FALSE that you can't have good internet access with a
phone line.
</ul>
<p>
Those myths (when taken as true) are only the basis of a
multi-million dollar business that exploits those who believe
them!
<br><br><h2>What does being the project coordinator imply?</h2>
<p>
Responsibility, knowledge, consistency and leadership.
<br><br><h2>Do organization problems arise?</h2>
<p>
Yes, as in every group dynamic, but along very particular lines.
<p>
Maybe the most interesting among them is that as this is a
project made of volunteers, you can't demand that someone do a
certain task, in certain way, in a fixed amount of time.
<p>
When you want someone to perform or do a certain task, it must be
founded very well to make an agreement, and it must coincide with
the particular interest area of that developer.
<p>
Another point worthy of notice is that sometimes very valuable
time is wasted explaining/coordinating/delimiting how some task
should be done to someone, only to finally get (after a trial) an
explanation for not being able to do it.
<br><br><h2>Has it demanded much of your time?</h2>
<p>
In the Dillo project I have two jobs:
<ul>
<li> Project coordinator.
<li> Lead developer.
</ul>
<p>
Moreover, considering the enormous complexity and dynamism of the
underlying technologies for a web browser, it is easy to
understand that there's much more work than time.
<p>
In fact, since the project's beginning, I've worked full time,
three years, including weekends.
<br><br><h2>What platform (GNU/Linux distro) do you use for developing Dillo?</h2>
<p>
I use Slackware, but in the development group there are people
using NetBSD, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Solaris, and other GNU/Linux
distros, so our software is tested on a broad spectrum of
platforms before making each release.
<p>
In my opinion, Slackware is the best distribution for one
who knows what he's doing, or wants to learn well the technical
rationale of a GNU/Linux environment.
<br><br><h2>How and when did you start with GNU/Linux?</h2>
<p>
I should say around 1996, with Slackware 3.5 or 3.6, but I used
"monkey linux" over a DOS filesystem before (kernel 2.0.30!).
<p>
Anyway, my first steps on Unix environments were by 1990.
<br><br><h2>Why do you state Dillo is Free Software and not Open Source?</h2>
<p>
Short answer:
<ul>
<li> Free Software is a social movement.
<li> Open Source is just a development technique.
</ul>
<p>
Medium sized answer:
<p>
After knowing there's a high-end operating system, developed by
volunteers around the world in their free time, that's
distributed as Free Software (which implies among other things
that you can use it without paying licences), any intellectually
inclined person starts to wonder what motivates the group to
devote their time to such an endeavour.
<p>
The answer is about a shared ethic and philosophy of such force
that it's able to create a social movement based on its members'
convictions. Unified by a common element, Free Software (or
Software Libre), under the shelter of the GPL.
<p>
It's silly to think that it's just for the joy of programming, or
even worse, for a development technique.
<br><br>
What is Free Software?
<p>
It is a type of Software that grants four basic freedoms:
<ul>
<li> Freedom to use the program, for any purpose.
<li> Freedom to study how the program works and to adapt it to
your needs (source code access).
<li> Freedom to copy and distribute (you can help your neighbour).
<li> Freedom to improve the program and make the enhancements
available so all the community benefits.
</ul>
<p>
In simple terms, the GPL license is the legal mechanism that
obliges that when the program is redistributed, those freedoms
can't be restricted, denied or restrained, so they are fully
preserved for the recipients.
<p>
i.e. software under the GPL will always deliver the four basic
freedoms stated above.
<p>
These simple elements have been creating an enormous software
base, shared by lots of people around the world. In fact, all the
GNU software and the Linux kernel are under the GPL. They are
Free Software.
<p>
But, what motivates this movement's members?
<p>
The answer to this question is very broad, including the generic
level, and probably I'll write about it on other occasion, but it
is worth a remark to note that for an abstract analytical mind,
the answer may come from the analysis of competitive societies,
interchange communities and cooperation societies.
<p>
Moreover, the famous "prisoner's dilemma" sheds a lot of light on
this matter.
<p>
A detailed answer (in English) can be found by reading about the
<a href='http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html'>GNU
project philosophy</a>.
<br><br><h2>What do you think about the fact that most people don't
distinguish between Free Software and Open Source?</h2>
<p>
It's not rare, as the term was coined in some respects to confuse.
<p>
The Free Software movement (Software Libre) antecedes the Open
Source Software (OSS) definition by far. In fact, if I remember
correctly, the GNU/Linux system existed and was already operative
before the term 'OSS' was coined.
<p>
In a few words, it happened that as Free Software produced
reticence inside the business world (because it was oriented
towards the freedoms the end user received), a small group made a
pragmatic decision: to conceal the ethical and philosophical
aspects, presenting Free Software as a development methodology
and not as the movement it is.
<p>
Thus, they elaborated an OSS definition broad enough to include
Free Software within a larger set (and thus to be able to claim that
certain software is OSS when in fact it is Free Software).
<p>
The problem is that OSS allows denying some of the freedoms
granted by Free Software.
<p>
The funny thing is, they had a tremendous success, and as most of
the written media makes its income from advertising (paid for by
enterprises), they decide to keep on using the OSS term and not
to offend their clients.
<p>
The point is, those who learned about GNU/Linux's existence from
that media began thinking it was OSS.
<p>
Today, the OSS term has caused much harm to the Free Software
Foundation and to the GNU project, whose achievements they declare
to be those of OSS, while concealing the underlying philosophy.
<p>
In fact, it was a double-edged sword: on one hand it opened the
entry door to the enterprise, and on the other, it concealed the
most important part: a matter of freedoms.
<p>
That's why today it is very important to distinguish and explain
the difference between Free Software and OSS.
<p>
I hope to have contributed to it.
<p>
Related information: about the
<a href='http://www.gnu.org/fsf/'>FSF</a>,
and about the
<a href='http://www.gnu.org/'>GNU project</a>.
<br><br><h2>How do you think Chilean Linuxers could be motivated to
participate in or begin Free Software projects?</h2>
<p>
Ouch! It's not just a matter of getting in. You have to know a
lot first.
<p>
Working in a Free Software project requires people with a lot of
knowledge, not just the will to participate.
<p>
I'd recommend first to get very well informed about what Free
Software is, and if they share the underlying philosophy, to get
involved in an area they know very well (as it could be the same
as they worked on with their thesis).
<br><br><h2>How do you see Dillo's future?</h2>
<p>
That's something that's not yet defined, as it regrettably
doesn't depend on us alone...
<p>
Technically, we have all the expertise, will and ideas to make
"big things" with Dillo. BTW, what we have developed thus far
already makes a big difference!
<p>
For instance, some may have heard about the "digital divide".
<p>
(the so-called "digital divide" is the gap that exists between
those who have access to information technologies and those
who don't. It is easy to see that in an interconnected world,
with an ever-growing portion of human activities being
encompassed by the informatics realm, this divide comes to
constitute what we may call the "illiteracy of the 21st
century").
<p>
Thus, it is easy to understand why the UN and most countries
(developed or not) are concerned about it. Consequently they
hold summits to debate how to close the divide, and assign
thousands of millions of dollars to the issue.
<p>
Regrettably, as the UN's general secretary has
<a href='http://news.com.com/2010-1069-964507.html'>declared:</a>
<p>
"But bridging the digital divide is not going to be easy. Too
often, state monopolies charge exorbitant prices for the use of
bandwidth. Governments need to do much more to create effective
institutions and supportive regulatory frameworks that will
attract foreign investment; more generally, they must also review
their policies and arrangements to make sure they are not denying
their people the opportunities offered by the digital revolution.
"
(think about it)
<p>
It is easy to see that the economic interests involved are huge.
<p>
A small example:
<p>
Dillo is a tangible demonstration that the technology to build a
PDA (pocket-sized computer) integrating a web browser and phone
EXISTS today.
<p>
Dillo is a tangible demonstration that it is possible to make a
home phone with a screen and web browser for near US $250 and
bring Internet access to a huge amount of people.
<p>
Why can't those products be found in the market?
<p>
If we consider the thousands of millions of dollars in profits
that the IT market generates as it is today, is easy to understand
why they don't want to change it!
<p>
In brief: the technology to bring low-cost Internet access to the
masses exists today. It only needs the willingness of some
government to do it.
<p>
In fact, in Chile, with GNU/Linux + Dillo, today it is possible
with an old computer and a phone line, to access a broad range of
information available from government servers, universities,
newspapers, magazines, forums, etc... (and not even according a
simple standardization policy!).
<p>
Our project is seeking funds that allow for a small team of
stable developers, with full-time dedication, with a view to
accelerate and improve our browser and thus contribute to build a
better-informed society.
<p>
All the information with regard to the Dillo project can be found
in our <a href='index.html'>web site</a>.
<br><br><h2>Is there any project where Dillo is used "commercially"?</h2>
<p>
Yes. there's an
<a href='http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT2869412121.html'>
interesting project</a> implementing an information intranet for
hotels over embedded devices (USA).
<p>
Moreover, I've been told that in an Australian university an
electronic information system was implemented over flat screens
controlled centrally from a web interface.
<p>
One time we received a thankful note from a person that completed
a heterogeneous research work (information retrieval) quickly and
efficiently because of using dillo.
<p>
The possibilities are many, it only takes some knowledge and the
will to do it.
<br><br><h2>In what ways could the Dillo project be helped?</h2>
<p>
I think in three ways:
<ol>
<li> Making direct contributions such as patches and source code
(which requires a lot of knowledge and experience)
<li> Talking about it! Knowing the project objectives, and
communicating them to people. Making people see that it's
possible to have good Internet surfing with an old computer and a
phone line.
<p>
Reading manuals and sites, investigating with Dillo,
enjoying the speed and ease with which it can be done, and then
go spreading the word to other people.
<li> Helping us to find a way to fund the project.
</ol>
<br><br><h2>How do you see the Chilean Linux community?</h2>
<p>
Really, I haven't had the time to get involved, but I think it
is active to some degree, with national gatherings, events etc.
<p>
BTW, today Nov 29, there's a national event of GNU/Linux in
Concepción.
<p>
I'd like to participate and give a speech, maybe in another
opportunity.
<p>
I also believe that the UTFSM's "linux" mailing list has done a
lot for the community, gathering a lot of people towards a common
interest focus.
<br><br><h2>Finally, what's your opinion of tux.cl?</h2>
<p>
It is an interesting project that's just beginning.
<p>
How could it be improved?
<p>
First you must define what you want to do: that is, the
publication's objective.
After surfing the net a while and getting the feel of it being
full of information about GNU/Linux, another news site is not
interesting; the point to take advantage of is that you write in
Spanish and know the Chilean grounds, so you can deliver
information that can't be found anywhere else...
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</body>
</html>
|
